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Gaza Invasion
Please note that all the exchanges below have now been posted to the Labour Party's Membersnet. Any further comments on the substantive
issue of the occupation should now be addressed to :
LI Membersnet LI Forum
This has two benefits:
1.Automatic notification is given to all contributors who have registered for this service.
2.The situation is automaically updated thus saving having to transcribe on to this website
----- Original Message -----
From: Labour International Central Europe
To: Undisclosed recipients
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 7:52 AM
Subject: The Gaza Strip: How can we help?
Hi
Like many people I am shocked by what the policies that the Israeli government has adopted towards the Palestinians in recent years. Such a level of injustice I believe would appall all socialists. A balanced and authoritative account can be found in Jimmy Carter's book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestine-Peace-Apartheid-Jimmy-Carter/dp/0743285026/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1230532937&sr=8-2
Perhaps no side is entirely blameless, but I believe the recent events in the Gaza Strip, with firstly the economic blockade, then the medical blockade and finally a military attack which has killed and injured many civilians, shows us that the time to act is now. Suggestions follow:
1. Boycott of Israeli goods
http://www.bdsmovement.net/?q=node/9
2. Resolution to request the disassociation of Labour Friends of Israel from the Labour Party, placing this organisation on a prescribed list for Labour members
3. Sanctions and withdrawal of cultural, local government and academic ties.
I understand that many people will have a different point of view regarding this, but I believe now is the time where we can exert pressure for a lasting peace in the Middle East, with the end of the Israeli settler movement and recognition of a contained Israeli state,
regards
Carl Rowlands
----- Original Message -----
From John MacKay_ LI
To: Labour International Central Europe
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:02 PM
Subject: Re: The Gaza Strip: How can we help?
Hi Carl
Thanks for the info. Agree your sentiments. Perhaps if you posted this on the Labour Membersnet / Labour International Page it might reach out to more LI members. http://www.labour.org.uk/membersnet
Fraternally
John
----- Original Message -----
From: Nina Davies
To: johnothick@ya.com ; annemackay@labourint.org.uk ; brutonfamily@yahoo.co.uk ; vivienne_sullivan@hotmail.com ; am@cotlands.net ; sue@billnot.com ; lsocbn@terra.es
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 3:30 PM
Subject: Can LICBN do something to stop the attacks on Gaza?
Hola Companeras,
I hope I have addressed this to all the committee members.
As most of you are members of the UK Labour Party and members of Labour International I wondered what action you are going to take to put pressure on the UK government to put a stop the Israeli bombardment of Gaza. Saying, as David Milliband did this morning, that the Government deplores the loss of life on both sides doesn't seem to me to quite fit the bill. The Israeli government would not be killing all these people if it didn't have the tacit approval of the US and UK Governments (as well as others I am sure).
Harold Pinter, a Jew, wrote that
"We cannot celebrate the birthday of a state founded on terrorism, massacres and the dispossession of another people from their land. We cannot celebrate the birthday of a state that even now engages in ethnic cleansing, that violates international law, that is inflicting a monstrous collective punishment on the civilian population of Gaza and that continues to deny to Palestinians their human rights and national aspirations. We will celebrate when Arab and Jew live as equals in a peaceful Middle East." Letter to the Guardian (30 April) , quoted today in the Guardian.
The message that I am sure many many people in the world are taking is that an Israeli, or American, or British life is worth so much more than a Palestinian or a Somali, or a Kenyan or an Indian life. In the Labour Party I was a member of we didn't believe that, we believed in solidarity with our brothers and sisters everywhere. I just can't watch what is happening in Gaza without trying to everything I can, pitifully little that it is .
Couldn't Labour International send an emergency letter to the Prime Minister and David Milliband? Email makes it very easy get signatures quickly. I signed here yesterday
http://www.avaaz.org/en/gaza_time_for_peace/97.php?cl_tf_sign=1
but Labour Party members obviously have (or should have) more influence on their leader.
Feliz Ano Nuevo a todos ,bon Any Nou a tots
Nina
Nina Davies, LICBN
Alicante
Spain
_______________________________________________________________
Fra: John MacKay_ LI [mailto:johnjmackay@labourint.org.uk]
Sendt: 31 December 2008 18:42
Til: Tim Clapham; Sylvia Moore; Rob Navin; Jeremy Millard; Tania Rogers; Nina Davies; Carl Rowlands; Ann and Kevin Bruton; John Othick; Tony Sullivan; Sue Lawson; Alan & Maureen White; Anne and John MacKay
Emne: Gaza
LICBN and LICC
Companer@s
I have recently received two messages, one from Nina Davies, a member of LICBN and one from Carl Rowlands, an LI member in Hungary.
I do agree that something should be done to express an objection to the Israeli action. A resolution, as Carl suggests is one way of drawinng attention to the Party. As things are notoriously difficult to get moving on an LI wide scale I would recommend that at least our branch could take some action.
Waiting until the GM on the 13th miight be taking too long for the action to have any immediacy and criticisms need to be immediate. What do you think we can do?
I attach below the two messages referred to above.
Hope to be back in SPain onn Firday.
Fraternally
John M
----- Original Message -----
From: John Othick
To: John MacKay_ LI ; Tim Clapham ; Sylvia Moore ; Rob Navin ; Jeremy Millard ; Tania Rogers ; Nina Davies ; Carl Rowlands ; Ann and Kevin Bruton ; Tony Sullivan ; Sue Lawson ; Alan & Maureen White ; Anne and John MacKay
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: Gaza
Greetings All:
Of course we should be condemning Israeli barbarity in Gaza. I share Carl´s feelings, but think that there is one point he does not mention. I feel we must urge our own government to be more forthright in its condemnation. Nina is right that Miliband´s response is wishy-washy in the extreme. At the very least, we should be urging our government to follow the example of Sarkozy and condemn the disproportionality of the Israeli response. This should be followed up by some of the actions suggested by Carl.
John Othick
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Sullivan
To: ILPJohnMacKay(2) mackay Int Labour Party
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: RE: Gaza
John,
I think a committee resolution could be put to the branch at its next meeting in January. It could take the form of requesting a suspension of Labour Friends of Israel, I would stick to just one proposition. We already boycott Israeli goods, but it could be suggested to members that this is something they could do as well.
Regards
Tony
--------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: Nina Davies
To: John MacKay_ LI ; Tim Clapham ; Sylvia Moore ; Rob Navin ; Jeremy Millard ; Tania Rogers ; Carl Rowlands ; Ann and Kevin Bruton ; Tony Sullivan ; Sue Lawson ; Alan & Maureen White ; Anne and John MacKay ; John Othick
Sent: Friday, January 02, 2009 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: Gaza
Hola a todos
In Wednesday's Guardian there is a letter signed by a group of Labour MPs. Great stuff but they are the ones who can put pressure on the UK Government (the Labour Government) to pressure the US to stop supporting the Israeli actions. We all know who really has all the power. We, as LI members, need to pressure MPs to do their job. Aren't they our elected representatives (or did I miss something?) .
Why cannot a group of MPs call for the return of parliament and a vote calling for an immediate ceasefire? I am very happy to write to some or all of the MPs who signed the letter - is anyone else?
On the Today programme this morning Lord Goldsmith spoke of the untold harm that has been done to the UK internationally by the lateness of our call to close Guantanamo Bay - he admitted that he had had to threaten to resign before Tony Blair (is he still alive by the way?) would condemn the US. That's the sort of moral courage we need.
I also agree with the actions suggested by John and Carl.
Nina
Nina Davies
Tim Clapham wrote:
Dear All
I disgree with the blanket condemnation of Israel. It was Hamas that refused to extend the cease fire, it was Hamas that started shooting rockets at Israel and refused to extend the cease fire, it had six months of peace that could have been constructively but were used to rearm, it is Hamas that refuses to recognise the right of Israel to exist(as of today Hamas leaders were calling for the destruction of the state of Israel), it is Hamas that has so little regard for the safety and security of its own people and its own children that it locates itself within the urban centres. Increasingly large areas of Israel are now within striking distance of Hamas rockets that are always aimed at civilian targets not military installations .
What frankly do you expect Israel to do, to sit calmly and allow its population to be systematically terrified and destroyed?
We have no conception of what it is like to be surrounded by states just waiting for our destruction, we have no concept of what it is like to have had our nation systematically exterminated while the west stood on the sidelines and watched (and this is not history is is living reality as you will find if you visit Warsaw and meet what remains of Jewish community here).
I agree that Israel tends to behave stupidly, its invasion of Lebanon a few years ago was a blunder of historic proportions but we in Europe have a moral obligation to the Israel which at the very least requires us to be objective before we rush to condemn.
Fraternally
Tim Clapham
Warsaw
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeremy Millard
To: John MacKay_ LI ; Tim Clapham ; Sylvia Moore ; Rob Navin ; Tania Rogers ; Nina Davies ; Carl Rowlands ; Ann and Kevin Bruton ; John Othick ; Tony Sullivan ; Sue Lawson ; Alan & Maureen White ; Anne and John MacKay
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:42 AM
Subject: SV: Gaza
Dear all
I certainly agree with Carl, Nina and John. The points Tim makes are taken completely out of context. First and foremost, Israel is illegally occupying Palestinian land and has ignored many UN resolutions for over 30 years, and yet the international community does nothing. (Bush went to war against Iraq because he said they were flouting UN resolutions – no wonder Muslims call the West one-sided). Although I do not support the Palestinian use of force, instead thinking they would be more likely to achieve their justifiable goals by following Gandhi’s example of non-violent resistance which would shame Israel and the world, occupying powers throughout history have met armed resistance which we mostly accept as legitimate depending on whose side we are ultimately on. (ANC, Vichy France, American War of Independence, etc., etc.). Second, Israel’s actions are completely and utterly counter productive. They further radicalise Muslims around the world, strengthen Hamas and weaken Abbas whom we and they should be supporting. We know that you cannot defeat this sort of resistance/terrorism (call it what you will) by force of arms. The solution has to be political, and yet Israel and Bush have long abandoned the political road. Israel certainly behaves stupidly and against its own interests. When it withdrew from Gaza in 2005 it refused to coordinate with Fatah thus denying Abbas the chance to claim the credit, leaving Hammas to say they drove Israel out. The result was that Hamas won the Palestinian parliamentary elections in early 2006, as a direct result of Israeli stupidity. Cannot the Israelis see the parallels between the Gaza Ghetto (the world’s biggest prison camp) and the Warsaw Ghetto? It’s uncanny. The only hope now is for Obama to be even-handed.
I already boycott Israeli goods and use every opportunity to try to persuade Israelis of this stupidity. Most of my Israeli and Jewish friends agree with the above, including the two who live in Israel.
Jeremy
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Sullivan
To: ILPJohnMacKay(1)
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: RE: Gaza
John,
Tim makes some very valid points, it is obvious that there are faults on both sides, what I am wary of is that we end up using it as a UK/US bashing exercise. Whilst people are beating their breasts about Israel why do we continue to ignore Zimbabwe, DRC and Rwanda??
Foreign policy in these circumstances is a thankless task and like economics no state can act on its own, small gestures may be possible, but that is all they are, if anyone believes that the US jewish lobby can be thwarted they are living in fantasy land.
We are paying for 8 years of Bush blunders in the middle east and until we seriously address the two state solution it is going nowhere
Regards
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: John MacKay_ LI
To: Tania Rogers ; Alan & Maureen White ; Sue Lawson ; Tony Sullivan ; John Othick ; Ann and Kevin Bruton ; Carl Rowlands ; Nina Davies ; Rob Navin ; Sylvia Moore ; Tim Clapham ; Jeremy Millard ; John MacKay_ LI
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: Gaza
Dear All
With your permission I would like to post the preceding correspondence to the Labour Membersnet to see if it
generates an LI members response.
We may get further interesting proposals.
Individuals can also post to the Red Rose Forum as this not exclusive to Labour members and may generate
responses from a wider field.
Fraternally
John M
----- Original Message -----
From: John MacKay_ LI
To: Jeremy Millard ; Tim Clapham ; Sylvia Moore ; Rob Navin ; Tania Rogers ; Nina Davies ; Carl Rowlands ; Ann and Kevin Bruton ; John Othick ; Tony Sullivan ; Sue Lawson ; Alan & Maureen White
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Gaza
Dear All
This is obviously an issue which is firing up people [and so it should] and we have a range of opinions being expressed about the rights and wrongs and about what line to take. Can I ask you please if we want to keep tabs on the threads of the arguments that we keep it on one thread by using Reply All. I have tried to draw all the threads together below (apologoes for any missing contribution) and, in case some have not seen it, enclose an extract from the Guardian Letters page to which Nina refers ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/dec/31/letters-horror-gaza-violence ). Judging by both the letters in the Guardian over the last few days and our email exchanges we are not going to get unanimity on what should be done to solve the conflict and we could go on exchanging views without anything concrete emerging. Irrespective of individual stances on the issue there seem to be three routes we seem to be able to go down:
1) Nina´'s suggestion re writing to the MPs who signed the Guardian letters (signatories represent all the major political parties - Labour MP details should be accessible on the Labour Party website). It would be more effective, in my opinion if joint letters are sent, so those in agreement on a particular line should try and agree a draft - Carl has already made some concrete suggestions. There is also the option to contact your own consitiuency MP, if you are still with a UK constituency, which might carry more weight, especially in marginal seats and / or where you have personal acquaintance with the MP. I 'll be doing this.
2) As Tony is suggesting (and perhaps this is John O's line of thought also together with (1) ) we LICBN should organise a resolution for our GM on Tuesday week. What form the resolution should take needs to be identified by the committee at the next Cee meeting on the 8th, certainly in letter form to the PM and the Foreign Secretary of State, possibly to the Britain in the World Policy Commission and the NEC CLP representatives ??
3) Try to solicit the opinion of LI worldwide via the LICC perhaps exhorting members to make use of the Labour Party Membersnet LI Forum where instant notification of latest postings participants is available. It might also be interesting to draw in Brussels and Chris Jones New York here. This is an important opportunity for the LICC to take the intitiative irrespective of personal opinions.
and a 4th
4) Letter to the Press (Costa and UK)?
Fraternally
John M
----- Original Message -----
From: Alan White
To: John & Anne MacKay
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2009 11:04 PM
Subject: Fw: SV: Gaza
John
I have a lot of sympathy with the views expressed by Jeremy Millard but would also ask -
'Where does the Middle East peace process fit into all this?' The question of humanitarian aid bothers me.
If Israel denies medical and similar assistance from reaching those in Gaza in need then it has lost any pretence
to having the high moral ground and should be totally condemned by the UN security council.
If the US should veto such a stance (particularly with a change of President in the offing) then where would
they stand in world opinion?
Maureen
----- Original Message -----
From: Moira andALAN JOHN
To: John MacKay
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 7:42 PM
Subject: Gaza
John
Attached is a rather hastily written motion for the next LI meeting.
I'm sure that as things develop we may to add to it (the need for a UN peace keeping force?).
However I wanted to ensure that we have something on which to hang a discussion.
Alan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: John MacKay_ LI
To: Moira andALAN JOHN
Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 9:57 PM
Subject: Re: Gaza Motion
Hi Alan -
many thanks for this - very timely in that there have been several views exchanged between various
LI people across Europe - see below. We are scheduled to have a committee meeting on Thursday am and Gaza and your motion will be on the agenda.
Where are you - in Spain or NI?
John
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